24 April 2023

Official Nintendo Magazine (ONM) Retrospective Series

ONM interviews Dragon Quest Creator Yuji Horii, Dragon Quest composer Koichi Sugiyama, and Dragon Quest IX producer Ryutaro Ichimura.

Issue 58 August 2010

Archive of The Official Nintendo Magazine UK interview with Dragon Quest Creator Yuji Horii, as well as series composer Koichi Sugiyama and Dragon Quest IX producer Ryutaro Ichimura. Copied verbatim from issue 58 of The Official Nintendo Magazine UK, published by Future plc in July 2010 for The Shops.

FEATURE: ENTER THE DRAGON

Gurg Note: Some minor text has been edited out for readability

ONM Travels to Tokyo to meet the fathers of Dragon Quest and find out how the 24-year-old series is gearing up for the 21st century.

When invited on a press trip, ONM is pure business. Armed with business cards, dictaphone and ten pages of probing questions, we stride into Square-Enix’s Tokyo HQ ready to give Team Dragon Quest the grilling of their lives. Turns out they want to talk about a grilling of thier own, specially beef. Yes, we’re sitting face to face wih the geniuses behind games that have sold 53 million copies to date and we’re talking about beef. Roast beef and Yorkshire pudding to be precise. Koichi Sugiyama, the series’ composer, says the dish is a favourite of his, last eaten when he came to the UK to record an album with the London Philharmonic Orchestra. At 79 years old - a rare age in this relatively young industry - he is sprightly and mischevious. He can talk meats all day.

Of course, we’ve got more to discuss than the pros and cons of Aunt Bessie’s puds. To Sugiyama’s right is series creator Yuji Horii, 24 years younger but still one of Japan’s most revered gaming elders. As creator, designer and writerm Horii is the daddy of Dragon Quest. It’s evident from the gaggle of Square-Enix underlings sitting around the edge of the room, hanging on his every word. Even Ryutaro Ichimura, producer of Dragon Quest IX: Sentinels of the Starry Skies, seems in awe . During our interview he defers reverentially to the creator; since Horii has spoken there is nothing more to be said. Hey, 53 million sales will earn you that kind of respect. We’re here to find out how Horii and his friends intend to increase that figure in the west.

The Start Of Something

Dragon Quest IX is the subject of day, but before we start we ask Horii what he considers to be the essence of Dragon Quest, the fundamental idea that has powered 24 years of role-playing success

Y.Horii: "As an overview, an RPG in my terms is 'you are the hero'. You're in there and you experience the story first hand. -- These are games where I believe you you should get the CD or whatever it is, stick it in the console immediately - don't read the manual, don't touch that manual. Just go in, pick up that controller and press buttons and see what happens. For me, and RPG is something you figure out very quickly, its very welcoming, very accessible, without looking at a manual."

Much of Dragon Quest’s accessibility stems from recognition. Over the nine games (as well as 40 ports, remakes and spin-offs) certain visual and audio motifs have remained unchanged. Think of the churches where you save or the parping jingle that plays upon levelling up. They offer us soothing familiarity - and Horii agrees.

Y.Horii: "It's basically to give the person playing a feel of ease. You're playing a different game but you feel at ease because you just saved your game and you know its because you heard that sound and its evocative of the sound you heard before. Just that little tune alone, that you've saved your game, will reduce the pulse.

Sugiyama - who composed many of the game’s first jingles way back in 1986 - sees his ditties as part of a Dragon Quest “language”. He explains that

K.Sugiyama:on the one side you have the music composing and the score,then you've got the sound effects which are, effectively, puncuation in the game. And that's something that is a direct signal to the player. You're in a church, you've saved your game, its okay. Or you've levelled up, well done!

Can they ever be changed? Or is there a secret Quest rulebook to be obeyed? Sugiyama points to a nearby stuffed Slime.

K.Sugiyama: If you see that thing, then you know you're in Dragon Quest. And when you turn it on you've got the Dragon Quest march theme song, and that unmistakeably takes you off to Dragon Quest.

That sounds like a ‘no’ to any changes then.

The Art Of The Matter

Talking of Slimes, there is one key figure missing from our interview panel: acclaimed manga artist (and Dragon Ball creator) Akira Toriyama. Responsible for character and monster design - and all that cosplay-resistant angular hair - he is the final member of the Holy Dragon Quest trinity. Horii, Sugiyama and Toriyama were there from the start. We joke that the new character creation aspect of Dragon Quest IX has put Toriyama out of a job. There are stern faces all around and a quick rebuttal from Ichimura.

R.Ichimura: Quite the opposite! Mr Toriyama is responsible for everything you see in the game, so for him it was an enourmous job.

Okay, no more jokes

If the music, art and accessibility are the untouchable elements of Dragon Quest, we wonder what Horii’s specific intentions were for Dragon Quest IX. He tells us that the host platform played a big part.

Y.Horii: With IX, because it was on the DS it was very clear that the key element this time would be multiplayer and Tag Mode, there would be a bridge between people playing the game, something to connect people.

We find it interesting that the first thing that comes to Horii’s mind is the multiplayer - while Wi-Fi is at the heart of many of the best DS games, we wouldn’t exactly call it the handheld’s trump card. But as it turns out, Horii’s opinion of the device is shaped by another ONM favourite.

Y.Horii: I enjoyed the very polished multiplayer aspect in Animal Crossing on the DS,

he reveals.

A New Beginning

Although we’ve killed Slimes on DS before - thanks to the excellent ports of Quests IV and V - this is the first Quest designed afresh for the handheld. Considering the last game was on the technically superior Playstation 2, how hard was it to get thier heads around a less powerful device? Ichimura is refreshingly frank about the task.

R.Ichimura: It was the mother of all challenges. We joked that when we were designing for the DS that it was like going back in time. We were fighting memory issues again. 'You remember the old days?' We did say that.

Not that the team didn’t manage it, of course.

R.Ichimura: We're very happy. We overcame all the challenges.

And a spare thought for the poor composer Sugiyama. Having previously written a fully orchestral PS2 soundtrack, he found himself with a one-way ticket back to MIDI-Land. He took it with good humour.

K.Sugiyama: Yes, I had to go the DS and there wasn't any full orchestra any more, but when I put together a score I'm thinking orchestrally, I'm thinking full symphony orchestra. I'll pull out of the DS whatever is possible to evoke that in the person playing the game. You'll be hearing MIDI noise, but my aim is to give you the feeling you're listening to a full orchestra.

Showing how in tune (sorry) he is with IX’s epic scope. Sugiyama adds that

K.Sugiyama: me trying to get that out of the DS is my quest, my adventure!"

To the team’s credit, Dragon Quest IX is a technical marvel. But, perhaps more interesting is how Horii balances the epic sweep expected from a Dragon Quest with the portable nature of the DS. This is, after all, the first Quest not designed to be played at home in long stretches -

Y.Horii: you're not tied to the TV or monitor

says Horii. He seems to have relished the opportunity.

Y.Horii: You can take it out on the street or bus or train, its's light and easygoing. You can play five minutes or you can play five hours straight, its up to you. If there are gaps in the day when you fel like playing you can do that. We've had feedback from people who have played two, three, 400 hours and they don't feel like 'God, I've played this game for ages', they feel like 'oh, I just dipped in and out of it' and then 'oh my goodness, I played 300 hours'.

Having lost several weeks to our office copy, it’s all too easy to believe.

Fairy, fairy, quite contrary

Gurg Note: This is in a sidebar next to the main copy, but I’ve stuck it here because its funny.

The cutest controversy in gaming…

Having bought four million copies of the thing, you could say the Japanese are a tad keen on Dragon Quest IX. But looking at the user reviews on Japanese Amazon paints a different story. Days after launch the website was inundated with one-star reviews. The main point of contention? Sweet fairy sidekick (and part-time train conductor) Stella. The lack of an epic narrative also got teeth a-grinding, but it’s the ditzy imp who absorbed most of the ire. Many found her “annoying” and “childish”, while others were simply confused about her strange tan. (Gurg Note: Her design is inspired by the 1990s japanese youth fashion trend Ganguro) Our favourite review asks “would such a strange tan really exist in idyllic medieval times?” We put the question to Yuji Horii. After a dirty laugh he replied,

Y.Horii: I thought it would be fun to stick a girl like that in the story. In VIII we had Trode, an old guy. I thought it would be nice to balance it out with a young girl.

And there you have it.

Telling The Story

As he’s the writer, we’re also curious to find out from Horii how he crafts a portable tale. It’s built from lots of mini, time-friendly story arcs (you collect seven mystical fruits, each with its own problematic scenario), and we’re surprised to hear this is more down to technical limitations than anything else.

Y.Horii: It's not so much something that has come about because 'oh it's the DS this is a way to tell a story'. There are limitations on memory and what can be processed at one time. [The story's] more of a result of that.

Thats’s us told. No more Newsnight Review over-analysing for ONM, then. Undeterred, we continue to probe.

Traditionally, Dragon Quest plops you in the boots of a predefined character. By letting us carve out our own heroes, doesn’t Horii lose control of how the story might work?

Y.Horii: Yes, you're right,

he says, as ONM breathes a sigh of relief.

Y.Horii: I really didn't know what shape or form all the people out there would take for their player. But I knew one thing: your player is an angel,so everyone who interacts with you is interacting with an angel, so in that respect I can take it from there. Also, I'm betting that most people develop a character or avatar that's a little like them

He’s clearly not seen ONM’s pink-haired, dead-eyes minstrel running around in only his pants.

One of our personal IX highlights (and it was the same with the recent IV and V) has been the rowdy localisation. Each region is roughtly based on a British dialect, from gruff northern Scots to mountain-dwelling Welsh. The game’s been localised for the west, but Horii says the style exists in the Japanese original.

Y.Horii: As soon as you encounter anyone for the first time and tou see the language that they use, it tells all you need to know about that character".

K.Sugiyama: With English you can have German- or Russian-accented English - you have nations and cultures mixing, whereas Japan is full of Japanese people, you don't have that kind of immigration,

adds Sugiyama.

K.Sugiyama: You've got Toyko Japanese, north-western Japanese, north-eastern Japanese, you've got the Japanese the young kids speak compared to an 80-year-old gentleman would speak...

Advanced Wars

Of course, there is one language that is universal: putting your fist in another person’s face. No translation needed. Having eagerly followed Dragon Quest IX’s development from its early days, we remember when real-time action was on the cards. The game now sits in our DS aaaand… there’s no real-time combat. What happened, Horii?

Y.Horii: Because it was multiplayer we thought it had to be action-based fighting, so we went with button-based attacks, but we found that we were basically mashing and didn't know what the other person was doing. There wasn't any interactivity, we weren't being drawn together. And so we went back to a command-based, turn-based battle system which worked better because you have got to wait and see what the person before you does, It's strategic - you have to think, you hav eto wait, you have to be patient.

Talking of patience, we can’t resist asking Mr Sugiyama a question that goes through the head of every RPG fan at some point: how do you write a combat theme, likely to be heard tens of thousands of times, that doesn’t send players loopy?

K.Sugiyama: The battle theme is the one piece of music you hear the most in the game and is the most difficult part of my job,

K.Sugiyama: I'm getting the test game early and playing the battle scenes, and even before that I'm at the planning stage and talking about how many different battle scenes we're going to have, and therefore I need to make different combat music for those particular types of battle. If you play DQI to IX, the music for those battle scenes is different in each one.

Sounds like a pain. Sugiyama agrees.

K.Sugiyama: For a composer this is a massive headache. That's a lot of work. A life's work.

Family Values

Hearing Sugiyama talk about a life’s work, we’re reminded just how long the men before us have been living in the world of Dragon Quest. In this light, IX’s new Wi-Fi co-op play has a particularly poignant role for Horii.

Y.Horii: Dragon Quest has a very long history, and people who played it when they were ten or 12 years old are now in their mid to late 30s, and I thought it important that those people had a chance to play with their children and help their children.

Youthful Ichimura was one of these children –

R.Ichimura: I'd be queuing up for every iteration!

he admits. So how does it feel to shape the series now?

R.Ichimura: I never thought id be in this position, and if there's one thing I have to be sad about, it's the face that I don't queue up any more outside the shop. Because I know what's coming, what's in the story, I miss that anticipation. But I'm very proud to be the producer.

If there’s one thing that we’ll take away from the trio, it’s just how head over heels in love with the game they make. Twenty-four years is a long time to spend up to your elbows in Slimes, priests and potions, yet they all speak wit a puppyish enthusiasm. Ichimura builds the games he loved as a child. Sugiyama travels the world, playing the music and eating batter products. Horii admits to visiting games’ hangout Akihabara and, unbeknownst to the fans with their 200-hour save files, playing with them.

Y.Horii: I go incognito with my DS and wander past, picking up objects,

he says with a cheeky glint in his eye.

Having opened our interview with the essence of Dragon Quest as a whole it seems right to ask Horii what he wants us to take away from IX. Summarising a 500-hour experience is no small task and it’s testament to the clarity of his vision that he speaks quickly and with confidence.

Y.Horii: The thing to take away from this is that is that it's not so difficult you won't know where to start. It's accessible - fire it up and give it a try. Play with your friends, with your girlfriend or boyfriend. Help each other to learn to play the game and you'll have a lot of fun. "

We have no beef with that.+

END OF TEXT

Gurg Note: So just some context: ONM was my magazine of choice as a child. From around issue 35 all the way to the last one, every month I was ecstatic to jump into the world of video games and learn about the best, the worst, the stories of the developers, and what was to come. This interview didn’t really stand out to me as a kid because, although I wanted to play DQ IX, I could only get like 3-4 video games a year and this was not high on a list with Monster Hunter Tri and (saddeningly) Metroid: Other M. But I digress, after a brief nostalgic episode I’ve decided to re-read the 20 or so issues I still have and archive interesting things from them, so here is the first. I picked this one for a few reasons, the main one being its source material. Im not a DQ fan, Ive only played a little of 9 so I was just curious about it anyway. But after reading through and seeing the answers, I found the content still very relevant to today, and an interesting account of the development of this game, what DQ means to the developers, how they implemented multiplayer and so on. DQIX was very different from VIII so the developers had a lot of challenging work to get through. Additionally, I couldn’t find this interview online. ONM have some enlightening questions for the trio, so enjoy and email me (mail@ghuth.co.uk) if you have or see any issues of ONM you don’t want anymore ;).

tags: Official-Nintendo-Magazine - Archive - Retrospective - Interview - Game-Development - Nintendo - ONM - ONMUK - video-games - Dragon-Quest - Dragon-Quest-9 - Yuji-Horii - Koichi-Sugiyama - Ryutaro-Ichimura - Japanese - Nintendo - Nintendo-DS - Multiplayer - Local-Multiplayer - Slimes